When StrawMen are All you have

Why go to all this trouble NOT to support what YOU are claiming and to attack the opposite, hoping that it helps your case?

This meme was on the post but has been subsequently removed when I called him on his assertion that he got it from an “atheist website”.

((Correction: it wasn’t removed. I just didn’t see it. Mea culpa))

I searched the wording and didn’t find the meme or the wording anywhere, not even on the no gods no masters site listed on the bottom right of the pic.

There actually was an ad campaign by American Atheists awhile ago with similar wording “There’s probably no God…” And the rest was exactly the same.

(The “probably” matters because they weren’t claiming to know or believe, just that the question is irrelevant to their lives).

None of the memes found on the NGNM website match the wording that shows on this pic. So the meme with this wording on the post didn’t come from that website or any other website I could find.

And I got silence in response when I asked the blogger where he found it.

My guess is that it’s a doctored version of the ad or a meme avail from that website. Either way, this blogger or someone he got it from fabricated the meme here to match what they wanted to convey as the Atheist position.

Either way, it’s dishonest to missrepresent someone else’s position purely for Apologetics/Polemical purposes. If you want to be honest, you can do better.

A comment I left this morning on a Post that isn’t even trying to be fair or respectful of the other side of the conversation. Please read the post yourself for your own review. Sadly, it’s not a unique problem on wordpress with amateur internet apologists.

So many straw men in this post. Doesn’t even look like you’re trying to be objective here. I’m not atheist, but you should at least be fair with their actual positions.

His answer?

Kiabooks,

Thank you again for commenting.

Could you please show me a straw man in my post?

Could you please tell me what the atheist position is on cursing someone out?

Like

  • To start with, the meme pic you chose for a header. Atheist don’t claim “There is no God”, not do they “believe” there is no God.
    The rest of your post is an assertion that without belief in God, one cannot have a basis for moral behaviour or personal conduct.

    Like

  • As for the atheist position on cursing people out? Not sure there is a general one. I’m not Atheist but I would suspect it’s individual and situational. For more than that you’d have to ask an atheist, rather than just make bold assertions. You clearly had no intention of doing anything but insulting them.

The point is, atheists don’t claim to know or even believe That God or Gods don’t exist. They just don’t believe.

The job of the evangelist or apologist is to demonstrate their claim that God exists and give evidence and reasons for others believing too. Not attack people for not believing.

If you want people to believe you… Do better and stop with the StrawMen.

-mike

Christians On Social Media

Great encouragement for amateur internet apologists everywhere. -mike

Navigating by Faith


Peter said, “but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense [apologia; apologetics] to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.” (1 Peter 3:15)

This is the tenor and main point of the article, CHRISTIANS ARGUING WITH CHRISTIANS ON SOCIAL MEDIA: A REAL INTEREST IN THE SALVATION OF THE LOST?….

I encourage you to read it. I put it here that people would read it, and that I would be reminded of it and read it again myself.

It’s far to easy to say things on social media that we wouldn’t think of saying face to face with someone in conversation. If we are not responding to people with gentleness and respect, as Peter urges us, we are not responding in love. We might as well not respond at all.

I…

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“I know what I know, if you know what I mean…”

“… Do ya?”

The Dunning Kruger Effect says the less you know about a subject the more confident you are about your mastery of it, and the more you “don’t know what you don’t know”.

There are so many more of US out there that need to go into Recovery from “Knowing It All” yet don’t know it yet. It affects how we treat each other, how willing we are to listen and consider the other’s point of view, and how ready we are to accept when we are shown to be wrong about a particular subject.

I think it comes from an inate desire to see ourselves as better than we are and perhaps better than those around us. It may go back to childhood where for decades we’ve been told we’re the best and the brightest by parents and adults who tried to boost our efforts by boosting our self esteem. Or it could be centuries of being raised in Faith Based environments that sold us on being The Chosen Ones, or Kids of the King.

Either way, it’s really just prolonged childhood and refusal to grow up into full adulthood. Many experience the D/K Effect and even learn about it… yet STAY Eternal Children out of Fear of the unknown and “Loss of the Gloss” of having a secure and stable “knowledge” or Faith Community to fall back on.

It’s scary to feel like you’ve been wrong for years… decades even… and have to leave the Plato’s Cave you’ve known for the Reality that you don’t really Know what you thought you did. It’s scary, but it’s necessary. We aren’t meant to be Children and Immature forever.

If you are confronted with your own version of The Dunning Kruger Effect today… It’s time to grow up. It’s time to accept you Don’t Know what you think you Know. It’s time to realize that you don’t even Know how much you don’t know.

It’s time to enter the Recovery from Knowing It All.

-mike

Two Believers Arguing about the Bible

Sadly, this could have been me. I was every bit as stubborn, foolish and ignorant in the face of intelligent, thoughtful and kind people who just disagreed with me.

I was a KJV, 6 days/6000yrs (certainly not more than ten), evolution denying bible totin’, chapter and verse spoutin’… arrogant S.O. a… God. They both understand and accept that they use circular reasoning about the belief that the Bible is the Word of God. The fact that Steven goes further down the Rabbit Hole to include the KJV Translation in his reasoning doesn’t negate that both are admitting and justifying their circular reasoning about the Bible in general.

If only James could take the logical consequences one step further… like I did.

-mike

Saturday Currently Reading: In Search of Paul

No, I’m also still reading Moby Dick

As some may know, I’m still very interested in almost all things Bible, Christian and theology. It’s hard to stop having an interest that you have carried on for decades. In recent years however I’ve taken to investigating history, archaeology, Texural criticism, and scientific endeavors as well and evaluating what I have believed in the past and what I believe now.

John Dominic Crossan is one of my teachers thru books in some of these subjects. I just started this morning a book he published in 2004 with archaeologist Jonathan L. Reed titled “In Search of Paul” on the Historical Apostle Paul and how his mission involved opposition to the Cult of Ceasar by promoting the equality of all, In Christ. In just the introduction and the first chapter, they have already managed to intrigue me in the juxtaposition of true Pauline writings in the New Testament to pseudo or false ones added or inserted later that sought to change or “edit” certain of his teachings for various reasons.

They are going to the places where Paul walked and worked, separating and discriminating as they go, to tell the story of the Historical Paul as closely as we can tell from actual history as opposed to just relying on shall we say… “cleverly devised tales” of him. This too is going to be a great read and a companion to Crossan’s book “The Historical Jesus” which is also on my shelf and which I read last year. Why not pick up a copy of either and read along with me.

-mike

Funniest thing I’ve seen all day

If you put aside the Blah-Blah-Blah, the bottom line is that ‘any excuse will do’ so that they can continue sinning.

I did comment on his blog how his post made my day. But I wonder if he realizes that Atheists don’t believe in God therefore they don’t believe they are sinning. They can’t “just want to keep sinning” because in their minds… They aren’t.

Also stuck me how dismissive he was “blah, blah, blah” of possible reasons Atheists might have, good or bad, for not believing in God, let alone his particular “brand” of God, or his particular “sub brand” within that brand.

His primary idea is that if people don’t believe his particular God exists, then they’re ultimately Atheists who “just want to sin”. Maybe people like him should do a better job of providing the evidence and reasons good enough to convince people of their God’s existence rather than berate and insult them for not believing.

This post of the blogger’s couldn’t display less thought, consideration and effort if he tried. It literally made my day, and I’m not even an Atheist. Lol

Kadesh Barnea, Gaza, & The Exodus

The Exodus that Never Happened… and my personal one that did

This post bears the evidence that is sorely lacking in support of what we’ve been told of the biblical history of Israel. The lack of actual Archaeological Evidence for the Old Testament Biblical Accounts is at least reason for pause and deep consideration. The implications actually lead to conclusions that Christians such as I was are sometimes not willing to accept let alone think about.

I reblogged this post about 3yrs ago on another incarnation of the RKIA, but I coming back to it because this was the beginning of my willingness to disbelieve the biblical accounts. I suspended my Suspense of Disbelief long enough to lookk at the evidence with an Outsiders Point of View. I took the “Outsiders Test of Faith” encouraged by John Loftus and before long “mene, mene, tekel, upharsin” found the very foundations of my Faith Tradition “wanting” and utterly corrupt.

I’m not trying to convince anyone. The Bookish Recovering Know It All isn’t a “Counter Apologetics Ministry”. I believe I’m past that phase. But it is important to own and explain where I come from and how I got here. If there is a God, and I still believe there may be, it isn’t the Judeo Christian God described in the Old Testament. And if there actually was a Jesus of Nazareth, which I still believe there may in fact have been, he was not the Jesus described in the New Testament. He would have been just a simple preacher of righteousness calling his people and his nation back to their cultural God and moral base… and ended up getting killed for his efforts.

I no longer believe in a historical, actual, physical resurrection of the man Jesus, son of Joseph. If he was crucified, he would not have been laid in a “new tomb” owned by a rich man. He would have been tossed unceremoniously into a common grave after allowing the birds and dogs to pick his bones clean. That is what the Romans did. Crucification’s whole purpose was to deny proper, honorable, and decent burial.

That Jesus is and has been dead for millennia. For me, the NT Jesus has also been dead for about four years now. And in his death, I’ve gained New Life. My hope for you as well.

Peace. -mike

The Jewish origin tale recounted in the Pentateuch is a work of geopolitical fiction. This is the uncontested consensus of biblical archaeologists and bible scholars. It has been the consensus position amongst professionals for nearly three generations now, but as the Chief Archaeologist at Jerusalem’s Israel Museum, Professor Magen Broshi, explained: “Archaeologists simply do not take the trouble of bringing their discoveries to public attention.” So solid is the consensus, and so definitive the evidence supporting it, that in 1998, the American Schools of Oriental Research (ASOR), the primary American professional body for archaeologists working in the Middle East, changed the name of its professional publication from Biblical Archaeologist to Near Eastern Archaeology simply because the bible had been determined to be (beyond all doubt) an entirely unreliable historical source to direct research into the early Jews, pre-Babylonian captivity. Indeed, in that same year, even Christianity Today’s Kevin D…

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New study: As Christianity declines, so do stable relationships and marriage

Since my comments keep disappearing at the original blog, I will reblog with my comments intact.
I’m curious what the current divorce rate is in the church vs among non believers?
I did find an article. Not sure when it’s from but I think it’s worth consideration. https://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

WINTERY KNIGHT

Man and woman working on a computer upgrade Man and woman working on a computer upgrade together

Mark Regnerus is a sociologist at the University of Texas, Austin. He publishes a lot of his books with Oxford University Press. So, his research methods are generally seen as reliable. I noticed that he had done a survey of views on religion, sexuality and marriage in 2018, and he published a popular level article about it earlier this week. I think it’s worth taking a look at his findings.

He writes:

Let me offer a word about the survey. I call it the American Political and Social Behavior survey, which interviewed 5,285 Americans in November 2018, just days after the midterm election. The data collection was conducted by Ipsos… a research firm with a very strong record of generating high-quality data for academic projects.

Here are his findings:

Views of unreligious, Catholic and evangelical Americans Views of unreligious, Catholic and evangelical Americans (click to expand)

This is…

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